argument on the nature of the internet and the public policy imperative that would impose laws to protect any given business model. >> host: as you mentioned earlier, professor, the issue of net neutrality is rather unsettled. it's not for sure whether or not these rules are going to go into effect. is that fair? or do you see them going into effect soon? >> guest: yeah. i think they will go into effect formally, and that will happen soon, probably in the next month, and then there will be challenges, court challenges. in fact, there have been some filed that have been set aside by the federal appeals courts because the rules haven't been published, there's been a long, long lag there. but there's a very high probability that these rules actually will be set aside by the federal courts because a previous set of rules that was, that were crafted to sanction comcast -- the largest u.s. cable operator -- back in 2007, 2008, those rules were set aside

as really being beyond the authority of the federal communications commission. .. discussing some of the economics. it's a fascinating issue, and, in fact, obviously people have been having different use of the basic structure of the internet. as an economist, i certainly see the internet very clearly as a marketplace in the marketplace that is constantly evolving,

constantly emerging with new business models. in fact, opportunity, that freedom to experiment with different forms of competition that has been a very important part of the dynamics the scene that marketplace. that is different than the view of the federal communication commission's, how is stated quite nicely that it -- they see the internet as basically an architecturally designed system that has served rose back in from the beginning of the openness of neutrality it doesn't exist in the form they characterize. and as an economic matter it is certainly false because there are all kinds of economic deals and pricing schemes and with the sec would call discriminatory partnerships and discriminatory economic packaging the favre one

him over another. this is the incredible invention that takes up so much of our production -- productive lives in this open and competitive marketplace. >> host: his most recent book, the fallacy of neutrality, also a professor of law and economics at george mason university, information economy project at the gm you was cool. >> thank you very much for having me and thank you very much to c-span. >> every weekend book tv offers 48 hours of programming focused on nonfiction authors and books. off -- watch it here on c-span2. >> jacqueline kennedy sat down with this story and offered to record seven entities selling

over eight hours to include the first is remembrances of her husband's personal and political life on the campaign trail and in the white house. she presents some of his recordings next followed by a panel discussion that includes michael that loss and richard donohue. >> evening. you have read the news stories, but your copies of the book, watch the prime-time special on morning television and the daily show with john stuart. not tonight live from the kennedy library with the oral history that has been so carefully house, we will hear directly from jacqueline kennedy about her life with our 305th president and from their daughter who has brought this fresh in history life. on behalf of the city a director of the kennedy library

foundation, members of foundation board, many of whom are here with us tonight and all of my library system foundation colleagues, of thank you for coming and all those watching on c-span and a gauze the writers of the kennedy library forum, sponsored bank of america, boston capital, lawrence's it, the boston foundation, and our media partners. the opening text panel of our new exhibit in her voice jacqueline kennedy, the white house earlier this scarcest new world history would never before seen documents and artifacts from our collection priests jacqueline kennedy had a rare combination of year -- yes, intelligence, courage, discipline, artistic creativity, and a style all around. she had an adventurous spirit and was an accomplished horsewoman who lived life at full gallop. the oral history provides us with many of her personal recollection that insights and i hope you will allow me to comment on just one.

when asked by arthur schlesinger his son is here with us this evening about where the president was relaxed mrs. kennedy replied it was possibly a. says blissfully happy. as it was for him with getting out, of course was for me. some of her mother's recollections, we also learn by caroline kennedy his presence animates this institution like no other and do steady provides worldwide access to archival collections these stories about two ponies, white star and black star. as he will these tales, the president was asked which of course she should write an with cousins should race and the other. in an interview she describes often choosing ms. smith as her

adversary. when asked by the interviewer issue is there when she said of course. would you want to go thinking that stevie smith try and cover you? we open. after carolines, our panel, a man described as the leading presidential historian wrote the introduction to this new book as well as its extensive annotations. richard k. donahue, a member of the kennedy and ministration, chair of board of directors to knew and worked with jacqueline kennedy in the white house here and pass -- massachusetts and during the campaign. we are delighted to have a former speechwriter for president bill clinton and director of the john carter brown library of brown university as the evening's moderator. toward the end of the program we will take written questions from the audience.

there are index cards available and staff will collect them from you. a few others guess our share with us tonight, including vicki kennedy, kathleen kennedy townsend, sydney lawford, steven smith himself, and two former kennedy administration officials who both happen to be my predecessors as director of this library, charles haley and then send to also joining us this evening is jim gardner, who among other duties, oversees the presidential library system for the national archives. in jacqueline kennedy this mason produced a most remarkable woman. among the many complement's one can bestow on this new book is that it is truly revelatory of her extraordinary life, team with, and the store will -- historical accomplishments. the who else could it real war and peace during the wisconsin primary dealer time is never left france and encouraged white

house staff publishing this oral history and generous serving this trust and prosperity. still a stride away start galloping through these troubled times on behalf of the causes her parents believe in, not the least of which is an appreciation of history. much has revealed in the force of the new book by her mother's a statement, tom, and even her pauses. the same can be said of the decision to publish this our history by the dollar and jacqueline kennedy raised so well. [applause] [applause]

>> i wanted thank you for the stewardship and tremendous care and dedication the show every day here at the library. board members and people that are worked with over the years, and especially the members of my family who are here to mean so much to me. i think it's a wonderful tribute to our parents that we are all here together. thank you all. most importantly, it means a great deal. six years after my father's presidency so many people share his vision to america his time is becoming part of history rather than living memory. words thomas pierce, an example remain as well as ever.

it is up to us to reach across this generation's and recommit ourselves and our country to live be ideal. from my family and the goal of these anniversary years are to stimulate interest in public service and use the power of history tells us all the problems of our own time. we have created the largest presidential digital archive in which my father is papers are now available online worldwide so that people can study his decisions and see history in the making. we lost that the jfk 50th website which includes downloadable exhibits and curriculum for students and where kids can of blood testimonials about their own public service in the spirit of jfk. sponsored conferences on the presidency, civil rights,

scientific innovation, and the space program. that quest for nuclear disarmament. policies that continue to ship part-of the estimate. we publish the interviews i mother gave as part of an oral history project in which more than 1,000 people were interviewed about my father's life and career. she mailed a letter -- the she often spoke of them simeons john few other people knew of their existence. she never gave another interview on the subject. the underlying goal of the oral history project which was the largest of its kind at the time was to capture recollections while there were fresh and for the stories had been told a million times or become overly

mythologized. no one interview was expected to be complete or comprehensive. together with the underlying documentary record and historical archive house here at the kennedy library, it was hoped that they might form a composite picture that will be valuable in later years. it to mir most important value is then make history, line, give them a glimpse of the human side of the people in the white house and remind us that they are just as imperfect as the rest of us. people have been surprised that my mother who was so famously private participated in this project and david her full commitment. to me it makes perfect sense. my parents shared a love of history. as a child my father was sick a great deal. while his brothers and sisters were up playing football, he spent hours reading in bed. i have his books on british parliamentary history, the

federalist papers, the american civil war, and the great orators of pension times. mama of preferred novels, poetry, and memoirs, see red war and peace during the wisconsin primary. a bleak winter landscape. [laughter] she has some nice things to say. [laughter] as she always told us that the best preparation for life in the white house was reading the memoirs who described the court of louis the 14th. my mother brought the same intellectual curiosity to current affairs. when she was engaged in first married to my father she translated countless french books ramp about the struggles for independence in the french colonies and algeria, tunisia, vietnam, and cambodia to all of which gave her a deep understanding of parts of the world that most americans would barely be aware of the time. still shaping our history today.

so she brought to the oral history interviews and respect for accuracy and historical scholarship. that is why she chose to be interviewed by arthur schlesinger, the pulitzer prize-winning historian who has sold as a special assistant to my father. it took a good deal of courage. the chronicles of the past investor that future generations would benefit from her commitment to tell the truth as she sought. it was not easy. she felt like she was during this for my father's sake and for history. this is this book has come out people have been surprised by her statements and opinions. today she was cautious see not dick cheney out of the number one spot on the best-seller list [applause]

[applause] i think she deserves a lot of credit for her honesty. [laughter] i have a difficult decision with weather to edit the interview. repetition, he sees that have not stood the test of time, comments that can be taken out of context, and use that she would later changed. it did not seem fair to leave them in, but on the other hand, these were formal interviews, not accidentally recorded conversations. both participants understood that they were creating a primary source document. so although they are all good arguments on both sides of the issue, i felt that i did not really have the right to alter the historical record. i also wanted people to see what and how my mother thought that a particular time. is sometimes is difficult for me to reconcile that people feel they know her because they have a sense of her image or her style.

he then never been allowed to appreciate her intellectual curiosity, sense of mischief, and keeping baseman with the people and events around her and her fierce loyalty to my father. for a modern listener one of the striking things about these interviews is how they evolved a moment in time. in her statement my mother takes care to come across as an obedient wife of the 1950's. she thinks only of creating a home for her husband and children. in keeping with the purpose of the interviews and the time arthur schlesinger ask your questions about her own activities for public role then an interview when asked if first late today. now that she has become an international icon it is hard to remember that she was only 31 when my father became president and totally overwhelmed by the prospect. it is interesting to track the evolution into a modern woman,

and ironic that despite the hopelessly old-fashioned view, the transformation began in the white house. she played was a traditional roles, like so many women she found her identity to workers. when she moved into the white house she had a 3-year-old. a newborn baby. her pregnancies have been difficult and she would lose another child in 1963. caring for us are protecting us was a top priority. it had been a long time since there have been seven in the white house and the obligations for the first lady including the busy official schedule. she touched the carve out some time the state has. an early version of the work and family bonds in active women are so familiar with the. she was dismayed by the uninspiring or, shall we be honest, hideously unattractive.

she still loved others believe that american civilization had conveyed and was determined to project the best of history, art and culture to the world. he wanted the legacy of washington, jefferson, and begin to be visible to americans in some families have visited our nation's capital into foreign heads of state who were entertained there. she set about to transform the white house until one of the nation's premier museums of american art in tech there are in history. this was more complex than simply redecorating, which she did not like. the price ditching and of congressional oversight and raises the debate pvc was determined that a piece of financing in self sustaining and proud that it elevated academic research and scholarship in the field of american art. her television torre stimulated new interest in her cultural heritage. she set up a fine arts committee, founded the white

house historical association, and reorganize the white house library to showcase works of american literature. she created in and mostly wrote the first guide book and the upper schlesinger to help with the books presidential biographies on one page, both of which are still sold today. of course people were eager to help her. but this is an ambitious high-visibility undertaking. those hard to believe today that it was controversial and carry political risks. my father said the campaign in 1958 and the 1960 primaries. my mother felt she was a political liability to my father because of her fancy french accent and close. his advisers did, too. they lined up against the white house restoration was hit but was released and were concerned about the propriety of creating a guidebook. what recently came across the memos on the subject. i thought you might like to hear some experts.

the first is from a memorandum to the president's that proposed sales in the white house. a loyal irishman, oppose white house the ministration. the attack supporting memos from the white house police and the department of interior he joined him in opposing the idea of the guidebook. behavior that could not be called a profile in courage, my father just give the memo to his secretary to afford to my mother who was on the case. [laughter] it was accomplished by the fact that there were no obstructions to slow up traffic. the secret service and winehouse police contend that moving crowd as a sieve crowd. domestic into consideration the possibility of severe criticism from the public. secret references are made like commercialism does not and has never existed in any form in the

presence of. consideration must also be given to the impressions formed by visiting dignitaries who expose such a commercial venture in the presidents of. members of congress. as examples of the criticism that might result we would like to cite the unfavorable publicity that was given and the efforts of the eisenhower administration to keep squirrels of the president's putting green. [laughter] this last reference was too much for my mother wrote in the margin, observed house stupid. this is not a concession stand. there is absolutely no connection. like other people who came up against my mother mcnally did not stand a chance. not long afterwards my mother wrote to the white house chief usher, the president tells me that jack mcnally was against selling it from the beginning and now says more can be solo way out.

[laughter] kennedy says this is your problem and does not want to mention it, which is rather sweet of them. i agree and we can use the money. every penny is needed. not long after her commitment to history led her to pressure my father to support a new mexico effort to save the egyptian temples which were going to be flooded by the construction of the dam. she wrote a long memo to jfk that you can see downstairs' lay of the importance of the temples and suggested that this will be a nice gesture. he promised not to interfere in yemen and saudi arabia. she dismissed as an understanding of cold war diplomacy riding the psychological political argument carries more weight than the economic one. the russians are building a dam as strictly an economic enterprise. by saving the temple the u.s. could show they care of the spiritual side and realize the importance of saving their cultural patrimony of egypt.

i think my father rolled over on this one, too. the temples were saved, and the temple now at the metropolitan museum of new york was a gift from the government of egypt to the people of the united states to pick them for their support. her commitment to history also led her to encourage my father to save lafayette square and start restoring pennsylvania avenue. these are movements at a time when neighbors across the country being demolished for modern office buildings and urban renewal projects. she did not give up. in 1970 she was still twisting my uncle's farm. the letter to him reads, dearest to the. [laughter] you can tell of this is going. [laughter] i sent you pat moynihan's letter to me. the week before i left the white house i went to see president johnson to ask him if he would see president kennedy's committee for pennsylvania avenue. before we left washington jack had been working on the

president pennsylvania avenue project. and he would drive from the white house to the capitol and sometimes we would walk half with their night, that tawdriness of when budgets to the presence have oppressed them. he wished to do something that would ensure an ability of architecture along that avenue, which is the main artery of the government of the united states. it was not something that came up by trying to restore the white house. it was his own vision. that is why i thought this urgency about asking president johnson. i knew he would have so many things piling and him that he would not give priority to the committee for pennsylvania avenue. that's why i begged him to receive them. he did. you can ask him how surprised they were to be among the first meeting in london johnson. here comes the hard part. i gather from his letter that he has reason to feel uncomfortable with you. i don't know the reasons, but i can guess them. [laughter] i just wanted to tell you this is one thing that really meant

something to jack. he had to resolve its differences. he found a way to make it happen. in some many ways to define the role of first lady to the modern age, straddled two errors, she is tribes of the oral history will not stay home and have fewer opinions that differ from their husbands and in the coming age. she was fully engulfed. as first lady she took the traditional woman's focus on the home and transformed it into a full-time job and a source of national pride. in doing so she created her own identity as an independent woman. she became an international sensation and a new kind of american speaking a language that the country should visit with my father and traveling abroad to india and pakistan on ron.

she was a patriot and believed her time in the white house was the greatest privilege and worked hard to be worthy of the honor. she liked my father, held this country together after his death and when it was over she resent the life of a private citizen, says the she cherished theories he found the strength to create a new life for itself and embrace new worlds. although john and i would have preferred to the state in hyannis port she remarried, it took us degrees, and expanded our horizons immeasurably. she devoured everything she could about ancient civilizations and renewed her unsuccessful efforts to teach as french. like so many women of her generation she went back to work on her children are grown. she took tremendous satisfaction from her job as an editor and from the fact that it was a job she could have gotten if she had never married and all. she loved her colleagues and her

enjoy for the next big best seller. see was excited when sea-land it michael jackson's autobiography and was proud to make quality literature to a wide audience and was the first to publish the work of the egyptian nobel laureate in english. her love of history continue to inspire her. she published an early book and was always trying to get us to read the only known diary of a napoleonic foot soldier then she discovered in an obscure library. she continued to advocate for historic preservation and equality and open life. she led the fight for grand central station and secure the victory. she rarely talks about herself and give almost no interviews. her evolution as a public figure and your life as a private citizen inspired millions of women to live life on their own terms and continues to do so today.

when i was growing up, she also used to say that she thought american history was boring because there were not enough women in it. i'm proud that she helped to change that and make possible the world of real fortunate to live in today. i would like to share a few of my favorite excerpts with you. first you will hear a description of my father's reading habits and then a section on the cuban missile crisis and finally a brief description of the white house restoration. i hope you enjoy them. [applause] [applause] >> kept up breeding. >> the strangest way.

the paper, meals, he would go back to dinner. this bureau. as it opens. you know, just a figure. >> a short take. come back. >> wanted -- everything he wanted to remember he could remember. some platform, to the seal and georgetown. interested. >> the history and better free. why not a novel. >> looking for something in books. looking for something about history, something for -- release he was reading.

he was quoting that to me. in all i think he was looking for something. >> the president's commented on whether there should be a red. >> that was never told to me and so much, much later. he did tell me about this crazy telegram that came one night. the nice one first. this crazy one.

remember jack being really upset and then deciding that they were telling me. very rarely. i said, how could you not say you rat sitting next to him. i remember another thing, the man wrote me a letter about just this morning. one of the worst days of it all, the last date. something get loose over alaska. >> violated soviet air space. >> oh, my god. add meat, then the russians might have thought we were sending it in, and that could

have just been awful. i remember him telling me that and i remember hearing how and some of the pentagon was mad at mcnamara. can think of what it was like, like an election night waiting, but much worse. one ship was coming. it didn't have anything, but it went on it anyway. all these ships cruising forward. i remember hearing that the joseph kennedy was there saying to jack, should you send me something? in no, and then finally came back and was aborted. can't remember. you know, finally when it was over. thanks me. and then it did had just gone on maybe two more days everybody

would have cracked. night and day. shepherding this situation. unremembered. and i mean, everything. and then wrote a letter to mcnamara afterwards was i shut to jack. ♪ >> out of the president feel about the restoration of the white house? >> oh, well, you know, he was interested in it. he would always get so interested. you know, i cared about it, but he was nervous about it. he wanted to be sure it was done the right way.

he sent carper fantasy me.eú he was nervous because he tried to persuade me not to do it, which jack never he said, you just can't touch the white house. he said it is so strange. if you try to make any changes it would just be like that. and they said it will be like the truman balcony. all but harry dupont and the people he hoped to get. how he said this committee at. certain legal things. studying the guidebook. so it was going along. i mean, he was so excited about it. >> criticism of the things you did in the white house. >> the most incredible interest. and then the taurus was start coming. and then, you know, he would come home saying we had more

people today. then the eisenhowers had in their first two years. the guidebook was selling. mcnally. you know, i was so happy that i had to do something that made them proud of me. i tell you, wondering if -- of tell you one wonderful thing. i was never any different ones of was in the white house that i was before. suddenly everything, your hair, they spoke french, that you didn't just endure the campaign and bake bread. dug in the white house, all the things that i had always done suddenly became wonderful. i was so happy for jack that he to be proud of me then. so happy. are happiest years.

[applause] [applause] [silence] [silence] [silence]

>> good evening. can you hear as of right? in her fall word to this book carolina has written for parents , the gathering of the most possible people you ever hope to meet. thanks to these remarkable interviews which begin here, we are privileged to attend the gathering of the fascinating people of the past, people ranging from urban. at the center of this gathering isabela living in a home that is famously. and you have studied many presidencies. franklin tomatoes above, lyndon johnson, the word happy came up in these conversations. >> and truth of these

interviews. one thing which she says, best when her husband was elected and 1960's. she had a novel reaction. incoming first lady. see was depressed. cassettes of this : some of the pressures. she was amazed. >> we had the opposite effect. re-election of the senate. so, almost every weekend. worked in the oval office, together in physical proximity. think there was an exhilaration contrary to what she expected. >> we heard a better interesting style of campaigning.

>> she loved wisconsin. a good thing no one is running there this year. >> i don't know if these proceedings have been televised in wisconsin. >> extremely fond of wisconsin. >> she did not like a single person except for the people that work for jack. if it was west virginia she like almost everyone she met. >> that's right. obviously she brought great charisma to the art of campaigning and was an asset from well before the election. part of the hard work of daily politicking, how did the staff feel about her?

>> she was great. i am sorry that she was not as happy about wisconsin as i saw her. we were in the mainstream broken-down straw house, and that was the headquarters. i remember being there writing and things. i do not remember that part of that. i do remember that there was a salesman from some ms. tepper. kept bothering her and bothering her. eventually she was writing to the president to.

she said, you know, fellow, i bought an ad. he's said to low, what oh, that's my money. so it was not as they hoped it would be. thereafter she was great. she was marvelous. the best part about it was that if you got an assignment fervor it was done completely hidden and fastidiously and as beautifully as it possibly could have so that if he were on the committee you had better make sure. she was very good. >> and one of the fascinating things we look for as a film crew doing a documentary, the wisconsin primary, which i am sure many of you have seen, just to give you a sample of how large it came in just a short amount of time, standing there

in the grocery store with a microphone almost begging people to come over and say hello. still shopping. may have had some influence on her. >> in the book was published on the 14th of september there was a huge amount of media attention. something's right and a few things not so right. a lot of attention was paid to the her remarks about the obligation of her right to ascribe to the political opinions of her husband. fairly controversial. thank you. and yet on the anita was coming into existence in the 60's and as you mentioned, the feminine mystique published in 53. she has very independent thoughts, a sharp judge of human nature and with all the people populating the white house, the

auction is happening all around her. she later did work. and so you see her. >> an unwitting feminist. the history, not a feminist. when you read it would you listen to her as someone, she came to the white house. she decided to do it her way. she found for result an enormous project which was restoring the white house which was probably three careers at the same time at the same time that she had young george. she did the job of first lady in a way that was very much her own choice, and she made other choices about her life, to. at thing by the definition that we now suggest, her political

could have caused it to say no. >> is that check with you as well? >> yes. the does question that she was a feminist. she just basically took over and did a job. somebody might assign it to amend. when she undertook the modeling or refurbishments of the mistakes that have been made and when she did it with a strength and the vigor and intelligence that captures everybody one. so i would not dismiss serve on any account, but certainly not. that wasn't her style. >> with your observations?

>> for much of his adult life, including the presidency. >> continue with you. working and campaigning. congressional liaison. was that something you picked up on? >> no. he never complained. he complained about lack of having sufficient of water. relieve the pain, but he did not complain. indeed, i was really struck. offering herself as the corrector of all ...

and i obviously was not giving her everything that she should have had. straying is searching. that was with give him relief. two things. seductive but it often. 1955. most poignantly she described how tortures it was in and see the scars that it was absolutely unnecessary. there was nothing wrong. back-to-back midnight in a hospital bed. the other thing is that when he was president i think this will

confirm this. the number of times we now know he was an agonizing pain. you never saw it. one image of that is the spring of 1961, their first foreign visit which was to canada. he had been told room to been disney's, not aggravate his back and just forgot to do it. absolutely unbearable pain which suffered the next couple of months, but if you see the video of it, he was such accustomed to not making people uncomfortable that even the people who were close to him did not know what happened. >> any other president in such constant physical discomfort, including track and roosevelt? >> hard to think of a loan of one. for instance, robert kennedy failed.

if that is the truth i think franklin roosevelt absolutely. researching this book. questions he didn't ask a u.s. city had? >> did, but everything is always 2020 in hindsight 47 years later. in those days most historians did not think to ask a lot about your own experience. the first lady in those days, a historian arthur schlesinger. there is less to be done for the purpose of your history can't talk about president kennedy. caroline as well. things that since we know what happened, sure wish she had asked the president might have done in vietnam.

other issues that were not so important. 1964 that in retrospect. >> is in sight by asking our family, there is no one else to ask. better skills and trends. the decision was made the to take a certain path to a story which was the path of the harvard the lead to a comedown to the white house. and as with the greatest author of stores himself. [laughter] i know because kenny o'donnell told me. when he came to visit he had a particular message. would you please get out -- arthur schlesinger off the list of people who did buy cable

because he was about the most beryl is party going person in the whole white house. listen to read anything you get by cable is around town by nightfall. then he said, no, you have done enough. i will have to do it. you're going to come out in this book does is. >> and one thing she says in here about compartmentalizing, she's possibly mentions. >> you know, one of the things that i found remarkable, nobody in this stuff really did business in the most. we communicated by phone. that was it. so there aren't great records.

>> the oral history program. >> that's right to end it made it very refreshing and when you could no the something that you have seen are done was not recorded, but you could also seek -- >> was there anything particular? [laughter] >> no. at save that for my book. [laughter] the thing that i remember the best about all that was when they reclaimed it was really about getting some stuff done at the white house. everybody would get all excited

about why so and so is writing a memo. we don't need a memo. we just get things done. i'll take his remark that we should have no historian. we should have people give a record of what is going on. that was -- that is a look at the president's attempt to deal with people on the staff, but the people of this house to the staff still very generously with one another. i mean generously, not so generously, but critically. and her not in an offensive way, not offensive to one another. although i could have been. [laughter]

but the -- most important memory i have, the formation of the campaign for the presidency. that really began with the five of the control in massachusetts. >> onions bird. >> talk, yes. and from the western part of the state, they have an onion patch out there. >> and nine in farmer as well as a bartender. >> well, that was not untypical. the of the party. this started because that was when we turned that this guy who had just been lifted from the senate and said take a shot at the control of the mechanics of

the party. now, that is really helpful. you get recognition nationally. nobody cares who is chairman of the democratic party in new hampshire or anyplace else. but the offices. but if you'd -- if you're getting ready for a convention, people who care about the party leaders want to know who is in charge even though they find that being in charge does not puts you in charge of much. so that is only started the campaign for the control of the democratic state committee. it was a tumultuous events that went on and on and on, although i remember clearly that it was on mother's day in the year in which the election was held when we were in the hotel park plaza,

property plaza. the president was interviewing the people of the state committee and asking if they support him or not. if they did he thought there were wonderful people. if they seemed hesitant. >> and you remembered years later he was for and against. >> yes. i sure do. over the years. and if you wanted to get a ticket to go to the white house you had better have been on the right side. >> 1956. >> yes. but that is when it began, and it was a crucial campaign. we did not have. [inaudible] >> who was that? ms. kennedy talked about this wonderful figure. not been a part of her previous

life. other gentleman that were referred to. >> says. >> tell about them. >> well, this really goes back to the hotel bellevue. the hotel bellevue, which apparently no longer exists, but it was at that time a block from where the president's apartment was and right across from the state house. it was the buzzword. they were in and output. >> this gerald had their headquarters there. >> perhaps. you know, it was not a place. you don't have e-mails and twitters and all of that type of thing. you just -- they were.

[inaudible] he whispered. >> thank you. >> they would spread rumors as quickly as you could spread a disease. they really did tall with a spread was a disease. as we were getting ready for the five for the control of the state committee we had mayor lynch of somerville which was our champion, and they had opinions brick, the champion of mccormick's. this father was also on the state committee. >> the brother in the house. >> yes. >> and about as different as the speaker as you could make. he was course, rough, tough. i remember when his son was withdrawing from my campaign

from the attorney generalship or something of that nature, and the father stood in the middle of the aisle, and the mechanics hall yelling in this sun. sit down. i have this stupid thing to do. [laughter] he was and what you called a wise counselor aback a lot of these things. .. is

>> i had high hopes but it's really fun talk about it. >> yeah. there's some fascinating what-ifs in the story, michael. there is the hint that an opening to china was anticipated in the mid-60s in quoting of mao and a trip to russia did that strike you as a surprise when you -- >> what's interesting i suspected it but at the first time we really had more solid evidence from the witness. john kennedy essentially was

beginning to plan his second term and two other things that he planned to do was to go to the soviet union would have been the first time a president would have been there, believe it or not and also an opening to china which in retrospect given what our world is like today was enormously pressurient but he used to see those are subjects for a second term after i'm elected. >> lyndon johnson doesn't fare that well in this treatment. there's a story of how he went out one night in georgetown and had a bit too much to drink and felt he wasn't up to the job. does that track with your sense of where lbj was? >> i think mrs. kennedy if she had read this later on probably would have felt she was a little bit hard on lbj. this was spring of 1964. he had just become president and he was not happy to overturn

some of her husbands items and the one thing cautionary note she perhaps she would have wanted emblazoned on the book this is a snapshot in time what she may have thought in spring of 196 may not have tracked with her feelings later on and later on as she had in oral history she came to resume her old fondness to lbj. she was very close to ladybird so i think one thing you always have to remember when you're reading this book is that some of the more fascinating opinions she didn't always keep them years later. >> right. >> one interesting insight into his political at the timement and dick this is almost opposite where everyone remembered which side you were on in 1956 but she said he had a remarkable personality where he forgave everyone and it was a little bit self-serving because you never knew who you had in the next

fight but it proceeded to a general inclination to forgiveness is that your sense how he did politics? >> no one could ever forgive the senator from florida. >> his dear friend. >> john mathers. >> who stand homework >> his administration voting record was about 2%. >> yes. whenever you needed his vote you couldn't have it and you would find the president inviting him down to the white house for children. and we frequently complained about it which did us absolutely no good because he continued to entertainment. and happily he got -- he determined that his career was not going to be furthered in politics and he got out. you couldn't understand how he could be so charitable but he was forgiving.

and his modus operandi that you may need him tomorrow and he was very, very fair about that. >> and in the times that stood out so much for me because he says, you know, i used to tell him, you know, why are you being so nice to that guy and hating him for the last three weeks because what he did to you and the president said oh, no he did such and such last week which was actually very good and the thing that he says to her, never close off a relationship so that there's possibility of reconciliation. and i do hope that everyone in washington right now will read that sentence. l[laughter] >> and take it to heart. [applause] >> michael, the term "soft power" has been in vogue for about a decade. i believe caroline uses the

phrase in her forward. i don't know if there ever was first lady who had that kind of ability to have people's attitudes around the world towards the united states. even if she doesn't talk about her political thoughts as much as we would like in these interviews there's still -- there's clearly a sense of there's getting a great deal done to support the administration even in her choice of countries to visit, how to present herself, all the cultural works she was doing. was there anything like that before her? >> she could really see around corners and see things that others could not see. one of them was latin america and later on got very short shrift from american presidents. she thought it was important that they went to costa rica. they went to new mexico. one of the most poignant things in the book she talked about a newspaper headline that mrs. kennedy was nice enough to

actually shake hands with little children who were from a latin american country because that was so unusual at the time. one thing both john and jacqueline kennedy both felt was exactly what you said, ted. one test of the american power is the number of missiles and nuclear weapons and so on. but oftentimes just as important as how people think about america in their hearts. that's what the peace corps was about. >> there's some wonderfully undiplomatic statements in this book. >> one or two. >> one or two. thank goodness. [laughter] >> i learned she named her poodle de gaulle in the 1950s. [laughter] >> that was my footnote. she should not be held responsible for that. >> did those surprise you -- >> what she says -- she had -- she came to have the same -- i think opinion of french people as she did of people in wisconsin. [laughter] >> and i think sort of for the

same reason. because wisconsin did not ultimately vote overwhelmingly for john kennedy. and the french particularly charles de gaulle was giving her husband a great deal of trouble. so i think you can see these things to some extent is a great test of loyalty. >> there's some beautiful language as well in the middle of the account of the cuban missile crises. >> there was no difference between sleeping and waking. i thought that was so signal because one of the toughest i think in the story and always has to do and i think you'd agree with this. we talked about this a little bit. is to find out what someone -- two things. one the depth of his or her religious beliefs particularly president and also the true nature of a marriage. and she described the cuban missile crisis that they were together probably more during that period than perhaps any other time during that presidency and he would call for her and they would spend walks

on the lawn or the water. he admired eleanor but when he was in a moment of great anxiety i don't think he would have found her restful or supportive company, probably would not have spent a lot of time with her in a crisis like this. in the case, jfk, whom does he turn to, jackie. >> was there any parts of the cd set and book, dick, that surprised you that reveals new sides to president kennedy? >> not really. but i must say that i was marvelled at her concern about the -- for instance, the remodeling of the white house. the detail that she went to, and that she had the research that she did and then her ability to administer it is really overwhelming. i just can't believe that a person could do it on that short

notice unless she had been planning for much longer than we know. >> and i think it was the depth of her reaction when she came to the white house and had a lovely experience with mrs. eisenhower who did not bode it terribly well. she was shown through the state rooms and they looked like labianca and a bad hotel. when the white house was reconstructed during the truman administration because it's falling down, they left the four walls on the outside, scooped out everything on the inside and built new floors and so, they ran out of money so harry truman quite charactercally made deal with a department store and they furnished it the ground floor of the white house. [laughter] >> sometimes the restoration of the white house is sort of written off as interior

decoration or sort of superficially. she had to raise the money which was not easy. and she had to have two or three architectural advisors essentially colliding with each other. and sister parish i think to some extent and if anyone doubts her political skills, the fact that she was able to do all this, get it on time and underbudget and for the white house to get it done it is today, if it doesn't i think the white house would still look like a bad convention hotel. >> the eisenhowers don't come off terribly well. president eisenhower is watching around the white house with his golf shoes with holes in the wall and mamie eisenhower was not a sympathetic figure but to be succeeded by jackson lynn kennedy must not have been the easiest things. >> but as things would drift to

her ears mrs. eisenhower saying i heard the restoration room is purple. >> i wasn't sure whether to listen or to read in which which would faster and really between the two you get so much more from hearing her speak, although i had one alarming moment in my car. i had the model loaded and i left keith richards -- one cd in the middle. it took little understanding -- >> she would want that, wouldn't she? [laughter] >> what do you think your readers and her readers -- are they even readers or should people listen to it? >> i think you get different experiences. when you read it, i think you can perhaps absorb what is said a little bit more but when you listen i think you're absolutely right, ted, this is probably true of most tapes of this kind. you get a sense -- in fact, i've heard caroline talk about this.

you hear her tone of voice and there's meaning you can't possibly get from just reading the words. >> right. >> we're now at the part of this event where we are taking questions and i have a few to begin. this is for you, dick. she talks about joseph p. kennedy and rose kennedy. you must have known those two individuals. do her impressions match with your memories of them and her interaction with them in public? >> yes. [laughter] >> you have a very long career in political life, huh? and distinguished. [laughter] >> well, no, mr. kennedy was very much a dominant figure in almost everything that went on in the political life. his mother was even more

dominant family life and kept after them for all the reasons that good mothers do. i mean, to make responsible children. and -- but they kept very, very close track of what each was doing. and so i would not disagree that anybody who thinks that they were enormously influential. the only thing i am conscious of, however, is that ambassador kennedy could not influence certain people in the democratic party. i mean, people that we were supporting, he frequently did not. >> who are you thinking of? >> well, i'm just really thinking about one fight that we

had. and he just was not responsive. i mean, well, bobby was the responsible one. and what happened was that bobby had indicted the brother of a congressman from new york. and a congressman who had been very, very responsive to us and wanted desperately for the indictment to be withdrawn. bobby refused. there then was a talk to the ambassador who said no, he's going to do what he's going to do anyway. so it caused us some pain but not a great deal. but it's the type of thing in which they would differ. and if he differed, he differed 'cause he was one strong rascal.

>> ambassador kennedy used to joke that he was a robert taft democrat. >> yes. [laughter] >> michael, what surprised you the most? did any of her assessments of key players differ from your views than those of other historians? >> sure. in all sorts of ways but i think in a large sense the thing that really surprised me was that if we were talking a year ago, i would have said that she was a large influence during that period but i wouldn't have particularly said that she was a large political figure in this administration. and i think if you made this book you have to say that because the number of times she talks, mainly about people but not always only about people. and you notice that the people that she's very critical of wound up not doing terribly well during the administration and vice versa. to some extent i think she was absorbed in her husband's views but she does talk about a few cases, for instance, where she was in pakistan, which had been

added to her trip to india to balance it off for two political reasons. one thing happened john kenneth galbraith was the ambassador to india in which john kennedy knew when he was in harvard. the ambassador in pakistan did not have that kind of relationship so for diplomatic relations it was a good idea to imply that walter mcconhe had a relationship with the president so mrs. kennedy implying the president thinks of the ambassador and he says that's funny i only met him once when i left to take this job two weeks ago. [laughter] >> so that didn't work terribly well. but not as a result of this. but having been in pakistan and watched him and watched him she wrote her husband's a memo say this is not the kind of ambassador we should not have

and he went to the state department and the ambassador served until 1966. so maybe a comment on dean rusk. >> he didn't seem to be as involved in domestic politics, would you agree, dick? >> well, i don't know if she got involved in domestic politics. for instance, when they talk about monuments, i remember going to see john -- what the heck was his name, the congressman from brooklyn who was in charge of the appropriate. >> now, would he have been politically eager to help at that point? >> no, he was not. he was not at all anxious to epi. the president because he fancied himself in being in opposition that strengthened him

domestically. >> john rooney? >> type. [laughter] >> but he was -- i went up to call him off the floor and to and ask to post the thing if he wanted it and he eventually said yes, he would and he never forgave me for it. >> i have another question for michael. as the presidential historian are you aware of any first lady prior to jacqueline kennedy who provide a candid public revelation in the white house? >> no. one thing you studied her life. she always broke the mold and was always innovating and perhaps pretty near the most important innovation she made was this idea that she would be asked for 8.5 hours of very personal questions, in great detail about her time as first lady. that had not happened before. and since then it almost always

happens. the first ladies would write books which was unusual. >> there isn't a page of this book that isn't infused with her wit and the sense that she and president kennedy were -- >> there's a wonderful story that i could interject where a representative indonesia was coming for a state visit. and oftentimes she says when there was a leader who was coming to the white house the president would bring the visitor up to see the first lady and the representative published his art collection and jackie got a document before he read and she wasn't able to read it before he arrived and he was on there on the sofa. mrs. kennedy on one side, the

president on the other. we have this wonderful book of your art collection. opened it and virtually every page was a topless woman. [laughter] >> and he would pick through it and there was my second wife, there was my third wife. and she says jack and i had to make an enormous effort to keep from laughing. it almost didn't make it. >> dick, could you tell how funny she was. >> i'll tell a funny story about her family. she was very close to her sister who was married to the prince of poland. he came here during the campaign and he was very big in the polish crowd but he was not an american citizen. he was a polish citizen and the drive was to get him out to see the people. and this fellow who worked in

the state department. and he was a very, very powerful political figure in the polish world. so he definitely wanted stash to come to his district as part of an individual campaign. i said, we can't do that. we can't have a foreign dignitary painting in a domestic collection. well, let me see what i can do. the next thing i remember is i get a call from shaplinsky. hey, deek, mish last night stash was a smash. [laughter] >> do you hear me? the stash was a smash. thank you, stash. [laughter] >> and pennsylvania went democratic that year by a much

larger than expected. we now know the reason. [laughter] >> michael alluded earlier to the toxic political climate we live in now. and, dick, how do you think president kennedy would have negotiated within that kind of climate. how would he help our system recover? >> i really do not know where this system as we have it today -- where people refuse to tolerate the other person's views -- how he could have possibly owned up to it. when i left washington, which was exactly a week before the president was assassinated, i had been working on the civil rights bill. now, we had put together with a lot of work and a lot of a real coalition of republicans and democrats prepared to support a real civil rights bill.

it was -- and i left washington with a certain assurance that it was over. there's no need to do it. i used to be able to name the republican congressmen that i could line up on almost any given matter because they respected president kennedy and they respected the things that he stood for. you don't have any of that today. no one respects anyone else. no one shares with anyone else. so i don't know how he could have fit in today's world unless he could have bombed them. >> one thing that sort of does it for me is the space program. when he went to congress and, dick, i'm sure was a part of this and i think a moon landing before 1970 is essentially to national security. a lot of republicans who didn't want to spend the money said if our president tells me that national security is at stake, i'll vote for it, which they did. >> i think we should all take

from this book a measure of optimism about ways our system can perform well at its very best. >> so even though we're not "american idol," there's no phone number for to you call in to place your vote. but our bookstore does report directly to the "new york times" bestseller list. so if you would like to keep jacqueline kennedy ahead of dick cheney on that list -- [applause] >> we encourage you all -- [applause] >> to buy a copy or two or three at our bookstore. i ask you to remain in your seats, if you will, we'll get caroline and the book-signing will be right outside this door. those of you in the satellite -- there will be a line that will be coming in from the front. those of you in this room, the line will form literally the back of this wall. but most of all, what i want to do is to thank caroline kennedy for her comments and for this

tu terrific panel. [applause] >> this event was hosted by the john f. kennedy presidential library and museum. to find out more visit jfklibrary.org. >> we have this book called the deal from hell. what's it about, basically? and why should we care especially why should people watching far away in bangor, maine, portland, maine, utica, why should they care? >> really this book talks a lot about the differences between journalism today and journalism when i started. when i got into the journalism, the newspaper business was really largely controlled by families. not all of them were angels by any means. but they really had kind of a public service mantra that they followed. and no one could put it better

than man coles the family who owned the des moines. and the only thing a newspaper really has to worry about is its -- it's is that the public respects it because if the public respects it, you will have readers. and if you have readers you'll have advertisers. and that's the main source of income and revenue for newspapers. so you really have to be respected by the public to be in a successful business. and then around the 1960s and the '70s that sort of got turned on its head when the families wanted to get out of the business and they started selling off their newspapers and a lot of times they sold them to people who -- through corporations that were ran by stockholders and those people who owned those corporations had a duty to journalism but they also had a fiduciary to stockholders. and as -- the first things were

fine because we had a lot of money rolling in and it was pretty easy to balance those two things. but sometime after september 11 that changed and we began struggling with revenues and as we tried to maintain the profit margins which were considerable, we began cutting and we began diminishing our journalism and i suspect all of us were a little bit guilty of subordinating the public -- the interest of the public through our fiduciary duties to produce the kind of returns that wall street and others expected and that kind of led us down to this path where we are today and i think in the tribune company it led to bankruptcy court and a great institution was a fixture is today an institution in trouble and i think it has -- it's an institution and all newspapers like it -- i don't think people

understand the fundamental role that newspapers play giving voters and people in a democracy in the news they said and they are under threat and it's troubling to me. it's troubling to a lot of people and i think, you know -- so everybody i think should care about this story, not just because it's about me or not because it's about the "chicago tribune" or the "l.a. times" but it's about journalism and it's something that i think is vital to a democratic society. >> though this book is called "the deal from hell" it's really about two deals. the first comes in the year 2000 and it involves the purchase by tribune company venerable, the chicago base owner of several dozen very respected television stations it's purchase of the company give us the economic backdrop at the time, the

newspaper industry backdrop and the rationale for that first of the two big deals. and if you want to mention a fellow somewhere along the line who became known i think as the serial killer, not a serial killer like john wayne gacy cereal and smart starts, tell us a little bit about him and why he was critical to the tactics and strategy in executing this deal. >> well, i think the deal with sam's was the deal with hell and the tribune made a stop in purgatory when it bought times mirror. and it was -- you know, basically, the atmosphere at the time was buyer be bought. and everybody -- aol and time warner had just merged and things were going quite well. and so when the tribune decided to buy this, things looked